How should a flushing dog behave in the grouse woods?

[seniorsetterguy]

I have a big running setter...I love him...and I love hunting with him on the prairie or in the desert...but I apparently have not the skill nor the temperament to train him to hunt close in the woods.

So, I'm looking for a good grouse dog to add to my kennel. I have hunted with some excellent grouse hunters and their labs. But when their labs get on a hot scent, they move pretty fast, and the grouse country here in Utah is not flat. I'm not sure I can take off and run after a dog on a scent and be there for the flush. Do all flushing dogs take off on a hot scent and require a hunter to hustle to keep up?

While pondering this this question, I've also considered a closer working pointing dog...one that will find the birds in a tighter radius around me and hold it until I get there (a griff, a french brit, a setter from cover dog stock, perhaps?).

A close hunting buddy suggested a Springer. I love the looks and temperament of a springer, but do they take off on a scent like a lab? Or is that a matter of training? What's your advice, guys?

Thanks in advance.

Rob

[Featherbuster]

IMO, It all comes down to training. I've seen Labs that don't get more than 25 ' away no matter what they are hunting. I also seen the best of em bust and run when overtaken by runners and their nose takes over their mind. Dogs aren't perfect, but neither are hunters. Hunting behind flushers, you have to be on your toes, it's kinda like hunting a dog that false points every few feet then all of a sudden the birds are in the air. A lot of guys give up on flushers when they can no longer keep up. As with all bird hunting there are many variables.I've always started a pup on walks to learn a distance that keeps him where he's at a comfortable distance for me(whistle training). Most flushers are never out of shotgunning range and they learn the distance you want them at. Most of the Labs I've had continually check back or keep in contact. That's what I like the most about hunting behind flushers is the teamwork you establish by always (almost always) being where the dog is close. I know very little about springers, but the same principles should apply. But then again, since you are more familiar with pointy dogs, you might have the best luck with training a pointy dog to hunt close. My suggestion would be pm Ryfly, he has a nice Lab. And he hunts a pointer.

[jozensg]

IMO, It all comes down to training.

Absolutely right IMO. I have a big Yellow Lab that would chase scents if I let him... and when he can get away with it. He does the best when I work him a lot. I just have to remind him who he's hunting with. I call him by name and also use 'close' something I've done since he was tripping over his ears. I reenforce this by calling him back and dropping to a knee every once in a while, give him a pat on the head or rub behind the ears and send him away again with a 'get on.' He's not perfect, but he almost always stays within gun range when he's hunted as a single dog. When there is another dog present he seems to venture out a bit further. You have to build that strong bond and relationship with your flushing dog. One where the dog seems to understand the tone of your voice more than what you're saying. I guess that's why I have three dogs at my feet while I'm typing this...

[BirdDogger]

We had English Cockers when I was young and my dad and I have been through a few Labs. My experience says that a really birdy flushing dog is going to make you hustle at times to keep up with it when it's on scent. Take my Gus as an example. He's hunts within gun range at all times. He's an absolute pleasure to hunt behind. I have to watch his body language, though, because when he gets birdy he's going to speed up and get more intense. If I don't keep up I run the risk of losing a running bird. 99% of the time it's a leisurely stroll behind the dog. Then 1% of the time you have to turn on the speed.

FYI- I've also hunted with Ryfly. He DOES NOT move slowly behind Abby!

[Ryfly]

I agree that you can train the dog to fit your style BUT it would be easier to get the dog that fits your style naturally. I know there are some Labs that slow down when on scent (and even some that point ). In my case I've found that when the dog is on the scent I don't want her to worry about anything else. I want her to put all of her focus on the birds. I will say that many times she will look back to make sure that I'm still keeping up but her idea of close and mine are a little different. If I just can't keep up because of the terrain or whatever I'll stop her with a quiet whistle or get her attention with the pager button on my Dogtra but like I said the fewer distractions the better. Keep in mind that the typical m.o. when grouse hunting for example is crossing a scent trail and then tracking it through all of the twists and turns the grouse has made as it wandered around the forest that day. There are times (especially in the afternoon) that those tracks can be hundreds of yards long and lead you through all sorts of terrain. That's why I want to leave the dog alone to do it's work. Personally, I love the rush of the last few seconds of chaos before she hits the birds. For those times when I want to relax and enjoy the scenery I also have a Pointer.

I'll also add that many people train their flushers to rigidly quarter out in front of them. That is great, especially in a flat field full of pheasants but I've found that the best way to find birds around here is to track them down.

[Rabbit_slayer16]

Rob... all i have to say... Have you lost your mind!!! you'd have to be crazy to buy a flusher AFTER you got a pointer! everyone knows a flusher is.. well.. "training wheels" when it comes to dogs. then when you are ready to let go of dads hand you get a real dog. a POINTER!!

[seniorsetterguy]

Thanks for the help, guys. And, Oh yeah, Ryfly does have a nice lab and Abby wore me out the couple times I hunted with her and Ryan. But she DOES FIND BIRDS!!

[Featherbuster]

Training wheels?

[Quill Gordon]

I dunno that I would recommend a flusher for a older hunter, no offense intended. Like stated earlier you really have to keep on yer toes with a flusher. Reading the dog is key and being able to kicker in high gear if need be. Blu grouse are not notorious runners, not to say they don't. So the norm goes once a flusher is birdy in Blu Grouse country start thinkin about shoulderin yer shootgun. I've seen Ruff's try to out sprint Ringnecks so stayin on the dogs azz can be helpful in bagging a bird. Alot of obstacles in the woods to snap a leg or twist a ankle. I also see you better served with a close working pointing breed, like say a Drahthaar or Britt. Maybe a pointing Lab would be in order if you like the breed for it's other attributes (an all around good companion)

[seniorsetterguy]

Thanks, Thom! Makes sense. The more I think about it, the more I like a griff...close working and pointy...